Culture may be one of the most used words in professional vocabulary but, it has evolved to become so much more. Recently, I sat down with Nancy Buck, CHRO at Plum and a leading voice within the HR technology sphere, to discuss her unique perspective on what culture is and why it is the pillar of organizational success.
Below you’ll find the transcribed interview, packed with insights and strategies that will help you transform your corporate culture and elevate your company to new heights.
Emily Loberto (EL): Thanks for sitting down with me today, Nancy! I’m looking forward to diving into the intricacies of company culture with you.
Nancy Buck (NB): Thank you for having me! I’m happy to be here.
EL: So, you have decades of experience in the HR sector and have seen and built successful company cultures across organizations. In your expert opinion, how do organizations even begin to understand and then define what their company culture actually is?
NB: You know, it’s easy to take a lot of this for granted. Many folks don’t immediately realize that defining their culture isn’t nearly as simple as it may seem.
A company’s culture is a complex tapestry made up of the attitudes, behaviors, and values of everyone on your team, top to bottom. It shapes how employees feel from the moment they step into their office or log into their virtual workspaces, how they communicate with each other, and how they tackle their tasks.
People often describe it as “just the way we do things around here.” It encompasses everything from the company’s moral compass and ethical guidelines to the informal norms that guide daily interactions. Essentially, it’s the shared ethos of the organization, the collective pulse that sets the rhythm for daily activities and interactions. Being able to nail that down into a few succinct messages can be quite the challenge.
EL: Yeah, that sounds like a monumental task. Since culture isn’t something you can tangibly see, how can you watch it manifesting within your organization?
NB: Cultural dynamics are built and continuously shaped through various elements: the values that the company stands for, the stories told and retold within and outside the organization, the symbols that represent significant achievements or milestones, the rituals that celebrate them, and the language that permeates throughout internal and external communications. Each of these components plays a critical role in reinforcing what the company values and how its people interact.
Culture becomes both a lens through which the world views the company and a mirror reflecting the internal working environment. I have a culture model that I can share with you to help visualize the flow.
NB: It’s these elements of culture that create assumptions, expectations and perceptions for employees. This in turn helps them determine how they need to act or behave. On the flip side, it helps leaders understand what you need to influence your culture. It's all about the elements that build it and subsequently, the actions or results you want to see from your employees.
EL: It sounds like it's incredibly important for everyone to be aligned on the culture is. Are there any steps you should take to ensure new hires fit in?
NB: Honestly, it’s all about consistency through the entire process. From job application to onboarding, employees are paying attention to what you told them and comparing it to what they're experiencing. That’s why consistent employee branding is so important.
EL: I’ve heard a lot of discussion around strong and weak cultures, and how they contribute differently to an organization’s success. Could you provide more clarity on what a strong culture entails?
NB: Of course! A strong culture is one where everyone in the organization shares and lives by the same values and beliefs. It’s like a cohesive force that aligns everyone’s actions and decisions. People in a strong culture know what’s expected of them and feel a sense of belonging.
EL: So, it's a company where everyone is on the same page and rowing in the same direction?
NB: Exactly! The organization's values are clear, and that creates predictability and consistency for all of its employees.
EL: Does that mean a weak culture is bad then?
NB: Well, yes and no. Generally speaking, a strong culture is beneficial because it provides clarity, cohesion, and a sense of purpose. Where a strong culture might run into roadblocks is when it does not leave room for change in response to internal or external demands. Cultures big or small must remain agile in that way, to innovate as needed.
EL: So, really, it’s all about balancing structure with flexibility!
NB: Exactly. It’s important to have some foundational cultural elements in place to ensure there’s a common understanding of values like respect, integrity, and collaboration. It’s about striking the right balance to encourage creativity without causing chaos or misalignment.
EL: So, a weaker culture isn’t necessarily better, but sometimes less rigidity can be beneficial?
NB: Well, the reality is that that’s the strong culture you want to create! The key is to adapt cultural strength to the industry's needs and the organization's specific goals. Flexibility and individuality can be woven into a cultural framework to bring out the best in everyone.
Ultimately, your goal should be to create an aligned culture.
EL: Speaking of balance, does culture impact a company’s bottom line?
NB: Oh, without a doubt. Culture has a profound impact on your bottom line. When employees are aligned with the company’s values and feel engaged, they’re more productive and motivated. This leads to higher performance and efficiency, directly boosting profitability.
EL: So, an aligned culture can really drive financial success?
NB: Absolutely. Companies with well-aligned cultures tend to have lower turnover rates, which reduces the costs associated with hiring and training new employees. Plus, engaged employees often provide better customer service, leading to higher customer satisfaction and loyalty, which contributes to revenue expansion.
EL: So, investing in culture isn’t just about making a nice place to work; it’s a strategic business move.
NB: Exactly. Building and maintaining an aligned culture is a strategic investment that pays off in multiple ways, from improving employee satisfaction and retention to driving innovation and financial performance. It’s about creating a sustainable advantage that supports long-term success. To do this, it’s critical that your cultural values are in lock step with the strategy your organization wants to pursue.
EL: It sounds like culture is incredibly important to a company’s success, but is there a flip side? Is there ever a time when a company’s culture can be a liability?
NB: I’m glad you brought that up. There is potential for culture to become a liability when it's not aligned with what’s necessary for organizational effectiveness. When this happens, it limits a company’s potential and hinders its ability to achieve its goals. For example, if you’re in an industry that demands flexibility, a misaligned culture that promotes structure and rigid processes will likely only hold your organization back.
EL: That makes sense. Are there any other signs to look for that could indicate that your culture is misaligned?
NB: The biggest indicator is often when, within the culture, people have a singular focus on doing things the way they’ve always been done. This can often lead to a groupthink mindset where people do not challenge each other or look for ways to make improvements in how the organization operates. This doesn’t allow you to react to changing business needs, which is incredibly detrimental, especially in today’s rapidly changing environment.
EL: What happens when an organization decides that they do need a cultural change? How do you go about changing something as intangible and integrated as culture?
NB: The most crucial part is ensuring it starts from the top. Your people leaders can be your greatest allies as you traverse new territory as an organization. The partner, sherpa, shadow model can also be a good tool to use here.
EL: What’s the partner, sherpa, shadow model?
NB: Essentially, it's a mentorship approach designed to help employees adapt to cultural changes more effectively. It helps leaders understand how they can best support the needs of each individual employee as they adapt to changes within the organization.
EL: Interesting. Can you go a little bit deeper into each of the roles and what they entail?
NB: Sure! When a leader adopts the partner approach, they act as a peer, navigating new cultural experiences alongside their employees and growing together. In the sherpa role, the leader serves as a guide, offering insights and support to help employees bridge gaps and align their behaviors with the new culture. With the shadow approach, employees observe their leader's behavior within the new culture, learning how to structure their own actions through these observational insights.
EL: How do leaders determine which approach they should take?
NB: It's all about understanding the skills and personality of each of your employees. We talked about how some people are more adaptable earlier, but others are more driven by teamwork, execution, decision-making, and the list goes on. It’s important to understand what areas each employee thrives in, and which they find more draining. For example, someone who is highly driven by teamwork might have no trouble adapting to a culture shift to make the organization more collaborative. In this case, a leader could simply use the shadow approach and model the new collaborative behavior. But someone who is drained by teamwork and prefers to get things done on their own would likely struggle a lot more. This is where the sherpa approach could be useful, as the individual would likely need more support and guidance to accept the cultural changes.
EL: It sounds like leaders play an important role in culture changes.
NB: Definitely. Regardless of which approach you take, employees are always watching and modelling the behavior of people at higher levels of the organizational hierarchy. Leaders need to make sure that they understand their organization’s current and ideal cultures and model the behavior they want to se. If there’s toxicity at the top, it could filter down and essentially poison the well.
EL: How do you support people through change, and make sure that they understand the nuances of what is expected of them?
NB: Make sure you build confidence by involving every member of your organization in the process. Culture affects every single employee, and when you ignore key groups, you set yourself up to meet significant resistance which could deter or even end the entire culture change campaign. It’s critical that you understand not only the overall culture of your organization, but all the sub-cultures as well. Often, conducting a company-wide survey is the best way to determine what’s working, what isn’t, and what your employees ideally want the organization’s culture to become.
EL: That sounds like a really challenging process. Are there any common pitfalls companies should watch for when attempting to bring about this type of change?
NB: Trying to change too much too quickly is a big one. Most people are naturally change adverse, and if you try to redefine your organization's entire culture all at once your risk overwhelming your workforce. Again, this is why it's so important to involve every member of your organization when you’re making a cultural shift. Change is a lot less scary when you are brought into the process. It’s also critical to know who your change champions are within your organization and get their buy in early on so they can help the rest of your workforce adapt.
EL: This has been an incredibly insightful conversation, Nancy. Thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me! Before we wrap things up, do you have any final words of advice that you’d like to pass on to anyone struggling with their organization’s culture?
NB: Make sure you have a plan in place from the start, but don’t get discouraged if adjustments are needed along the way. Going in blind is the fastest way to ensure that your culture change initiative will fail. Before you even begin determining what your new culture will be, you need to ensure that you know where it stands today. It’s also critical to involve your people. Give them the chance to add their voice to the conversation and listen to where the gaps are between your current corporate culture and the culture they desire. And understand that changing your culture is an incredibly challenging undertaking. It takes time. But with the right mindset and tools under your belt, it is possible to transform your organization for the better.
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